Would you ever leave?
Something I’ve been thinking about a bit in the last few days is the following question:
Are there political circumstances, less than dictatorship or communism etc, that would make you leave the UK for another country, say the USA?
For instance, for all conservatives reading, suppose that Britain became very obviously a region in a European state. Suppose that we approached Swedish levels of taxation. Suppose the counties lost virtually all power to regional assemblies. Suppose Parliament lost all power to Brussels. All weights and measures everywhere must be solely metric including distance and beer. Suppose our military was unable to act independently of Continental political support. Suppose the United States no longer considered us a partner militarily or diplomatically. Suppose the common law was rationalised into a Roman system to permit greater integration. Suppose that Britain was a republic, with proportional representation and state funded political parties. Suppose there were European taxes, a harmonised exam system at 16 and 18, and a common European university degree qualification. Suppose the European Social Model and Polly Toynbee triumphed completely.
Would you stick around? Or would you prefer to live in a country that respected your political beliefs, and was created from the traditions that had been destroyed in Britain?
For myself, I really don’t know. I love my country, but like Rand, maybe I demand reasons to love it as well.
James Hellyer said:
Jan 04, 06 at 12:28 pmOr would you take to the hills and forma guerilla army, only emerging to launch stikes against eurocrats?
Eric Jacobson said:
Jan 05, 06 at 1:26 pmAn interesting premise. I myself am an American living in the UK; while I dearly love the people, I find the long, slow slide into authoritarianism deeply distressing–indeed, I find the general tenor of daily life to be more restrictive than anything I ever experienced in the States, and increasingly so (to my great concern). It’s rather like seeing a much-loved parent deteriorate into madness. I can’t do anything, and any criticism of the UK’s current policies is all too readily misconstrued as ‘hatred of the UK and her people’; which is precisely contrary to the actual fact.
My own country’s core political philosophy derives directly from that of Enlightenment England and Scotland. It’s painful to see the land which inspired my own nation’s experiment in ordered liberty subsuming itself in a European superstate which is economically unviable, increasingly tyrannical, and ultimately hopeless.
At least I *can* return home if needed; and as a foreign national I enjoy certain protections not available to an ordinary subject of the Crown. I’ll only say that, should the terrible situation you outlined ever come to pass, I would be honored to sponsor you for immigration to the United States.
Gavin Ayling said:
Jan 05, 06 at 4:35 pmYes, it’s certainly a problem - we may not be allowed to emmigrate by the countries that we might hope would harbour us!
James G. said:
Jan 05, 06 at 11:43 pmI have the great luck to have been born a citizen/subject of both countries. I grew up as an American, but I have adopted England as my home.
One of the reasons I actually joined the Conservative Party was to at least contribute to trying to stop the rot.
But if, as I suspect, our boy Cameron turns out to be Blair MkII, I think a return to the US is in the offing. That’s why his waffle bothers me. We aren’t that far from many of the scenarios offered.
I lived in Germany for two and a half years and returned here to England precisely because, when I left in 2001, it was nowhere near where Germany was, and I missed it. Scarily enough, in my absence it inched that much closer to being politically European.
I’d love to think I’d take to the hills, but at the moment, I am poorly armed (plan on taking up shooting in the coming year, though) and am sceptical of my ability to appropriate adequate amounts of ammo to protect myself and my family from the forces of darkness…
In fact, once my wife’s parents pass on, I will probably take my family back to the States, especially if we get Blair MkII.
The Germans have a saying: “A fish rots from its head.”
The people of this country are great. But they are in need of a Churchillian style leader to help ween them from the Welfare State teat (and deprogramme the rest of the population as to the “rightness” of it). And no one is out there of that calibre.
I swear I feel as if I should be wearing a tinfoil hat when I write like this, but I’ve lived in Europe, I’ve personally seen Islamofascist terrorists case the building I’ve worked in, I’ve seen so-called Peace Activists carrying placards calling for “Death to the USA”, and I’ve watched the enemies of all I hold dear win the propaganda war in this country with absolutely no real opposition. And the new leader of our party and his cohort is pandering to them rather than fighting them. Screw the centre ground. The centre ground is the Fabian left. We are well on our way to a Social Democratic Eurodecadence.
[/rant mode]
Administrator said:
Jan 09, 06 at 1:49 pmThank you Eric, that’s a very generous offer. As James G says we’re not that far from any of the scenarios, so you might be called upon sooner than you think.
(I can think of steps that are being taken towards every item on that list - with the sole exceptions of being a republic and adopting Roman law)
So here’s another idea: In 10/20 years time, when we are where I describe, could those of us who feel the same way emigrate en masse to the US, and set up a community of our own? A town called New London or New Britain or something…
We’d need sponsorship to buy the land and build the infrastructure. We’d need either US government support or to accept that only a few of us would be able to naturalise. Or we could recruit a large number of Republicans to sponsor each of us.
We would be just like the original settlers. Not moving so we can “worship according to our own beliefs” exactly, but definitely moving so that our beliefs would be respected, and we’d be able to express them politically.
Snafu said:
Jan 12, 06 at 8:39 pmIt is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.
Are we the frog!?!
Administrator said:
Jan 12, 06 at 9:09 pmNo we are not the frogs! They live just over the water.
Tom Paine said:
Jan 28, 06 at 7:35 pmMy wife and I have pretty much already decided. We keep a retirement home in the UK and all things being equal would end up there. We love our country, but the Orwellian nonsense that’s going on there now is beyond a joke. The trouble is where to go?
France would be the nicest place in terms of lifestyle, but it’s scarcely more liberal and the taxes are so prohibitive that our best French friend is already an exile. France also does not seem to have assimilated its Muslims any more effectively than Britain and I love my car too much to see it barbecued.
Dubai is nice, if a little boring, but depending on the prevailing winds the fallout from a nuke over Teheran could take us out.
Germany is quiet, civilised and we have friends there but we don’t really want to earn ANOTHER language after what will have been 20+ years abroad and three languages by then. Besides (no offence to my friends) but the food is awful.
America won’t take us, even with the kind offer of sponsorship from Eric - unless we are able to save rather more money for our retirement than we have managed so far. Canada seems like an option, but it’s becoming more restrictive. Australia would be nice, but it’s too far to visit our children regularly. Any suggestions?
John a.k.a. Mr. Knuckles said:
Mar 31, 06 at 8:55 pmNice blog… Good subject. oh, and America = out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Stuart K Jarman said:
Jun 12, 06 at 2:14 amAlready made the jump four years ago! Sold up everything and had enough to pay off all our debts and buy a small home outright for cash in rural Virginia, US of A where it’s still possible to get by on my army pension. With a little hard work and wise investment on the property market we now enjoy a lifestyle that ould have been beyond our wildest dreams in GB. Six months ago a friend offered my a job and immigration sponsorship on the back of it, so we are here to stay.
The weather’s great, good food and cold beer cheap and plentiful, crime practically non existent - we rarely ever lock the car or house unless we are away out of State or overnight. Best of all, no wall-to-wall World Cup coverage!!
niconoclast said:
Sep 08, 06 at 3:11 pm12 years ago I went to Medford Oregon at a supermarket and the chap I was with didn’t even lock his car as he said there was no need.He also had an unconcealed gun in clear view on the back seat. Imagine what response that would elicit from the police over here in UK….